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Saturday, 12 May 2012

Re: [Yaadein_Meri] Fw: Non-Quraanists question.

Reply to common arguments of Hadith Rejecters (Part1)
The previous articles in this series have given us a clear picture of the Importance of Sunnah and Hadith, and how Islam would have (Naudubillah) been incomplete without it. The articles are a tiny little compilation from the massive library of scholarly work on the subject. Insha'Allah, we believe these articles would be enough for a person genuinely seeking answers to his doubts regarding the matter of Hadith and their importance. But as for a person who has closed his heart already, instead of reflecting on the points made, he only comes up with silly arguments regarding various issues ranging from authenticity of Hadith to making claims that some Hadith classified as Saheeh contradict the Quran, etc, etc. And this has always been the case of people who deny the clear proofs. That's a really easy strategy used by even the Jews at the time of Prophet (SAS). They would continuously keep raising questions like "Who brings the revelation?" "who were the people of cave?" "what is ruh?" "why is it sometimes a boy is born and sometimes a girl?" "will we be raised after we are dust and bones?". They want to keep you busy answering their questions so that you never get time to make your own point. No matter how many arguments you answer, they will always keep coming with more. So throughout these articles, we concentrated on highlighting the necessity of Sunnah and Hadith. But now, we will be answering some of the arguments that Hadith rejecters usually come up with. Again, the intention is not to answer them, because if they haven't understood it in previous articles, there is little chance they will understand now. These answers to their arguments are only to show how false are their claims and how silly are those arguments, and how little is their knowledge on the subject of compilation and preservation of Hadith.
Argument 1: How should I believe that Sunnah is preserved?
First and foremost, one needs to understand that Allah commands us in the Quran to follow the messenger (SAS). And that not following the messenger takes one out of Islam.
But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee (Prophet Muhammad [SAS]) judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction. (Translation of Qur'an 4:65)
…And whoever disobeys God and His Messenger, for him there is surely the fire of Hell, to abide therein forever.(Translation of Qur'an 72:23)
So if Allah has made it compulsory on us to follow the messenger, then there MUST be a way that his statements, actions, approvals and character description must have been preserved. If someone claims that these are not preserved till date, then Naudubillah, he is alleging that Islam does not give complete guidance for someone to enter jannah.
The question arises, where is the Sunnah of the Messenger (SAS) recorded authentically? Now the fun begins. The Hadith rejecter wants to reinvent the wheel himself. He doubts the classification done by scholars like Imam Bukhari, Imam Muslim, etc. And he does so because he is completely, in the sense, COMPLETELY unaware of the procedure by which Hadiths were compiled and preserved. As a simple test, ask him what part of the compilation procedure has a loop hole. Ask him to give a better procedure. Forget all that, just ask him to name any 5 people from Tabe'een who he thinks are weak narrators but scholars classified them as strong. They cannot. They just cannot. They will only do what they do the best. They'll change the line of argument and start a new one.
Don't worry. The thing is, it is not obligatory upon every Muslim to reinvent the wheel and classify things as saheeh, weak, fabricated, etc. Allah does not burden the common man with these things. He does not leave them misguided either. This work is of the scholars. Scholars, who know the deen in and out, and have spent years and years studying various aspects of it, not like these Hadith rejecters who think they have all the knowledge in the world because they probably know Arabic and have read a few books here and there.
The Saheeh classification of Imam Bukhari and Imam Muslim are unanimously agreed upon by Ijma (consensus) of scholars. Apart from that, even the authenticity of other Hadith collections and application of Hadiths can be verified by referring to works of other scholars.
We have had great contemporary scholars, al-hamdulillah, to whom we can refer back to in the past. We have major scholars, who passed away in recent times as well, like Allamah Ibn Baaz, Allamah Naasirud-Deen al-Albaani, Shaikh Ibn Uthaymeen, and many others – may Allah have mercy on them all. And we have major scholars who are alive today like Allamah al-Fawzaan, Shaikh ar-Rajihi, Shaikh Saaleh aal-Shaikh, Shaikh Abdul-Aziz Aal-Shaikh, and others.
What is obligatory upon a Muslim is to have a basic fiqh (understanding) of Aqeedah, ie. belief. One must know the names and attributes of Allah, what is tawheed and what nullifies Tawheed, so that he cannot be fooled. Don't forget that whatever these scholars say is with EVIDENCE from Quran and Sunnah only, and not out of their own minds. But it is the ego of Hadith rejecters that stops them from accepting the fact that someone else is more knowledgeable than them.
For people who are genuinely seeking knowledge, here is the link to basics on Usool-al-Hadith by Dr.Bilal Philips.
It is really amazing to know how much care was taken by these scholars and their students is compiling and preserving the Sunnah. It is easy to reject the work of these great scholars reclining on a couch in luxury homes reading a few articles here and there on Google. It is only after one contemplates their pain and efforts, will one understand its real value.
Argument 2: Hadiths were written 250 years after death of Muhammad (SAS).
First of all, it is a very western ideology that anything that is not written down is bound to be forgotten or changed with time. We need to understand that the Arabs were absolutely amazing memorizers. One cannot doubt the memorization of the narrators, because it is the same people through whom even the Quran came to us. The Quran was not compiled into a single book until the Caliphate of Abu Bakr (ra). People had bits and pieces written here and there, but there was nothing in a book form. Same was the case with Hadith. Famous memorizers among the Sahaba include Abu Hurayrah, Abdullah ibn Abbas, Aisha Siddiqa, Abdullah ibn Umar, Jabir ibn Abdullah, Anas ibn Malik and Abu Sa'eed al-Khudri. Each had memorized over 1000 hadith word by word. The list continues in the era of Tabi'een and tabe'tabe'een and so on.
But even if talk about writing down the Hadith, we know from history that they were being written even at the time of Prophet (SAS) himself. We find numerous Hadith in these regards.
We suggest seekers of knowledge to read the second chapter "Compilation" (just 12 pages) from the Usool-al-Hadith of Dr. Bilal Philips for further understanding. For sake of convenience we have uploaded the 2nd chapter separately. It available at the link below:
Some manuscripts who's originals are still available in libraries deserve special mention here,
-          Hamman bin Munabbih was one of the students of Abu Hurayrah (RA) (died in 53Hijri/678AD), and his saheefa is still in existence today (Berlin and Damascus), and has been translated into English too. It contains 138 hadith, virtually all of which are also found in either Saheeh Bukhari or Saheeh Muslim or both. This shows that even though there is a gap of 200 years between these scholars and Abu Huraira (RA), the Science of Hadith preservation is so comprehensive that there is no chance of missing any authentic narration.
-          Another work from that time is al-Muwatta composed by Maalik ibn Anas (d.801AD)
-          One other important point to be seen is in student written Musnad of at-Tayaalisee (died in 813AD) in Khuda Oriental Public Library of Patna. At the time, they used to write down the names of people to whom these books would be passed. This book bears the names of more than 300 male and female students of hadeeth, who had read it at different periods. Among them are found the names of great traditionists such as ath-Thahabee, al-Mizzee, and others. The Hyderabad edition of the musnad has been published on the basis of this manuscript. This shows the degree of desire to learn the Sunnah knowledge.
In addition, al-Azami has produced a list of 437 scholars who had recorded Hadith and all of them lived and died before the year 250 A.H. See "Studies in Early Hadith Literature – Muhammad Mustafa Azami" for more details.
So what really happened after 200 years?
If Hadith were written and passed right from the time of the prophet (SAS), then why do we refer collections of Hadith that were compiled after such a long time? So here's the answer. The four Imams lived between 80AH to 241AH. Imam Abu Hanifa lived from 80-150AH. Imam Shaafi also lived from 135-188AH.  The only imam who lived between 200-300AH was Imam Hanbal who lived from 164-241AH.  Imam Bukhari lived from 194-256AH. It was also between 200-300AH that the other great Imams such as Imam Muslim, Ibn Majah, Tirmidhee, Nasaa'i lived.
Till that time, there were many personal collections of hadiths which were transmitted with at most care to make sure that hadiths are transmitted through verifiable channels. The methods of transmission were as follows:-
1. Samaa: Reading by the teacher.
2. Ard: Reading by the student.
3. Ijaaza: Permission to transmit.
4. Munaawalah: Grating books.
5. Kittabah: Correspondence or distance learning.
6. I'laam: Announcement.
7. Wasiyyah: Bequest of books.
8. Wajaadah: Discovery of books.
On further reading we understand that during the initial three hijri centuries there was a system which was more or less like modern day copyrights system. One was not recognized as a hadith narrator unless he had permissions to transmit hadiths from his/her teacher. Thus even methods like 'Wajaadah' were not recognized as way of learning hadiths.
So hadiths were always transmitted, followed and implemented but recognized as authentic only when it came through the strict copyright laws now included in 'Science of Hadiths'. After nearly 175 hijri the only change was that scholars improved on this by better selection methodologies, and utilized the combined knowledge of the predecessors to compile masterpieces such as Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. They also organized these Hadiths properly into musnads, sunans, jamis, mujams, mustadraks etc. so that they could be unanimously agreed upon as authentic and there would be very less need to check for the their authenticity anymore, especially for lay man when Islam was entering every house from the Atlantic to the Pacific. In short, what really happened after 200 years was only refining and organizing of Hadiths.
But probably Google is not the place where the arrogant Hadith rejecter could learn about this history. He makes this argument out of sheer ignorance on this topic.
Conclusion for this article
Here the conclusion is much simpler than that other articles. If someone has a disease (doubts regarding authenticity) he/she must either:
  • Become a Doctor (study science of Hadith) OR
  • Go to a Doctor (refer scholars of Hadith) OR
  • Remain sick and die with it.
Choice is yours

Reply to common arguments of Hadith Rejecters (Part2)
In the previous article, we saw how ignorant the Hadith rejecters are when it comes to their knowledge of even the basics of Usool al Hadith and its history. (We even got a live demonstration of it when this latest Hadith rejector came out with all his frustration on ScanIslam Crew's facebook note). In this article, we will Insha'Allah look at the two common arguments they switch to, when they are left speechless in response to the previous articles.
Argument 3: These Hadith go against common-sense
Hadith rejecters usually quote some authentic Hadith and say "it doesn't seem logical". Not sure why they use such arguments when they claim to accept Allah is As-Sami (The All Hearer), Al-Basir (The All Seeing), Al-Hakam (The Judge), Al-Adl (The Just), Al-Khabir (The All Aware), Ar-Raqib (The watchfull), Al-Hakim (The Wise) and much more. After proving the authenticity of Hadith to someone, if the person responds with this kind of an argument, then it raises the question whether he/she really believes Allah is All Wise? And If yes, then why do you want a logical response to every instruction in Islam? When we accepted Musa's (AS) stick turning into a serpent, and we accept Sulaiman (AS) speaking to bird, just because ALLAH SAID SO. Then why this dual policy of rejecting the Hadith ONLY because it does not fit his/her logic?
Argument 4: Quran is protected by Allah, while Hadith are bound to get corrupted with time
Assuming that the Hadith rejecters makes this claim from Surah Al-Hijr, where Allah says,
"Indeed, We have sent down the Zikr, and indeed, We will be its guardians."
[Translation of Quran 15:9]
The word Zikr, has been used in the Quran for referring to many things, like the Quran itself, the complete deen in general, the remembrance of Allah, the messenger of Allah (SAS) and even the Friday Prayers. So when Allah  promises to protect the Zikr, it includes the Quran, the understanding of the Quran in the example of Messenger (SAS), the prayers, and all aspects of the deen. In short, Allah will protect EVERYTHING necessary for the deen till the last day.
The thing is, Quran can never get protected unless its meaning is protected as well. If we leave Quran to be freely interpreted, then even those terrorist organizations are legislated to kill Jews and Christians wherever they find them, because that is how they understand the Quran.
Allah says in the Quran,
"Indeed, upon Us is its collection, and its recitation. So when we have recited it, follow its recitation. Then upon Us is its clarification"
[Translation of Quran 75:17-19]
See how Allah separately addresses the "clarification" of Quran in the 19th Aayah. The recitation of Quran is one thing, and its clarification is another. You cannot take the words of Quran and interpret it according to whims and desires.
Once the Quran is clarified to the messenger (SAS), how does it get clarified to rest of us till the end? Yes, we have already seen in previous articles how the Prophet's (SAS) statements, actions, approvals and character description are all part of revelation. We have already established that one of the role of Messenger (SAS) was to EXPLAIN the Quran. This is what the Hadith rejectors don't agree to, though they have never been able to answer the Aayat of the Quran which we quoted in Article-3.
"… And We revealed to you the message that you may explain to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought."
[Translation of Qur'an Surah 16:64]
One of them even went to the extent of redefining Arabic language and to give new meanings of few words, only to get humiliated badly. That is the level to which these people can fall.
Argument 5: Quran is complete guidance. So there is no need of Hadith.
This argument is based on the some of the below Aayat of the Quran.
Alif. Lam. Ra. (This is) a book whose verses are perfected and then presented in detail from (one who is) Wise and Acquainted.
(Translation of Qur'an 11:1)
We have explained (things) in various (ways) in this Qur'an, in order that they may receive admonition, but it only increases their flight (from the Truth)!
(Translation of Qur'an 17:41)
And We have explained to man, in this Qur'an, every kind of similitude: yet the greater part of men refuse (to receive it) except with ingratitude.
(Translation of Qur'an 17:89)
Ok, Quran is the complete guidance, with everything explained in detail. So what?? Hasn't the Quran guided us completely to follow the messenger? Doesn't the Quran explain us in detail how the life of messenger (SAS) is nothing but a revelation? Of course it does. And it does it convincingly for any open hearted person. And that is the role of Quran.
The Quran talks about different Prophets and their tribes. It talks about Yajood and Majood. It talks about people of the cave, it talks about the companions of Elephants. Yet, Quran is not a history text book. Allah only speaks about the history that He out of His ultimate wisdom knows can remind people and bring them to faith. The Quran talks about various geographical aspects of Allah's creations. Yet, the Quran is not a complete geography text book. It is only for reminding the people and bringing them to faith. In the same way, the Quran is complete when it comes to guiding someone to faith. If this book of Allah cannot remind someone and bring him/her to faith, then nothing else can. But what after that? What follows true faith is practice. And this is where Quran asks us to look at the example of Prophet. To live our lives in accordance with what he said, did, approved and forbade.
Dual policies of Hadith Rejecters when they say Quran is enough for them
The hadith rejecters horribly end up contradicting their own claim of "Quran being enough" when they have to look to various options outside Quran when it comes to practicing Islam. And we personally have encountered hadith rejecters of different shapes and sizes at scanislam
Some look to the biographies of Prophet for this – Funny, they doubt the work of Imam Bukhari and Muslim, but not of these authors of biography. Some even refer to dictionaries written as late as this century to understand the same Quran. Some rightly look at classical Arabic dictionaries, but completely forget the fact that even the classical Arabic was preserved through the same science of Hadith which they reject.
Some say it is learnt from Sunnah of Jews and Christians – Wow! What is bound to be more erroneous? Sunnah of the last Prophet to mankind with all these awesome Usool al Hadith techniques? Or the Sunnah of earlier prophets which was anyways intended for their limited period? They are ready to take from a 2000 year old Bible which in Quran's word itself is corrupted and its words have been changed, but they don't want to take it from the Hadith of the Prophet (SAS). That's Super-contradiction!!
Hadith rejecters find themselves in a fix even in matters as simple as lunch and dinner. They readily enjoy Allah's gift of sea foods. How in the world can they prove an un-slaughtered fish to be Halaal without using the Hadith, when Quran straight away forbids us from eating dead animals (Quran 5:3). With only Quran, they cannot even prove how animals like dogs and cats are prohibited as food. (Wonder if they'll start taking hot-dogs a bit seriously after reading this)
Further, they have some funny disputes among themselves, when it comes to law enforcement. There were two Hadith rejecters who were debating with each other whether the punishment of cutting off the hands of thieves is maximum punishment, or a minimum. The funny part is, these educated illiterates were unsure from where the hand needs to be cut off, wrist or elbow or shoulder? This is the pathetic state of these self-declared Aalims.
Some are even more disgusting. One of them told us, "There is no specific method to offer Salaah. I can pray even standing on my head". Another one told us, Quran only advices not to drink alcohol. It is like a warning on cigarette packs." (Super!  What a justification to following ones nafs and desires).
These people are so helpless without Hadith that they cannot even explain important terms like Ar-Riba (which leads to major sin) and which day is day of Jumaa? (which was earlier called Arooba).
Naudubillah. May Allah protect us from this fitna which is nothing but doubts and confusion and ultimately following one's own nafs.
"… They follow nothing but a guess (zann) and that which the souls desire…"
(Translation of Quran 53: 23)
 
 =========================================================


From: Zaheer Bawany <bawanyzaheer@yahoo.com>
To: Simple-Islam Yahoo Groups <simple-islam@yahoogroups.com>; Yaadein_Meri Yahoo Groups <yaadein_meri@yahoogroups.com>; Ethad-e-Islami Yahoogroups <Ethad-e-Islami@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 5:58 PM
Subject: [Yaadein_Meri] Fw: Non-Quraanists question.

REPLY TO MUNKEREEN-E-HADITH
Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah
Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 92 :: Hadith 382
Narrated 'Abdullah:
The best talk (speech) is Allah's Book 'Quran), and the best way is the way of Muhammad,(pbuh) and the worst matters are the heresies (those new things which are introduced into the religion); and whatever you have been promised will surely come to pass, and you cannot escape (it).
 
سورة الفرقان
25
63
وَعِبَادُ الرَّحْمَنِ الَّذِينَ يَمْشُونَ عَلَى الْأَرْضِ هَوْنًا وَإِذَا خَاطَبَهُمُ الْجَاهِلُونَ قَالُوا سَلَامًا
63. And the slaves of the Most Beneficent (Allâh) are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness
 {And the slave of Most Merciful walk on earth softly (polite deposition)  and with confidence and when   they come across Stubborn and disputers (Just debating to spoil faith/belief of Muslims) They respond with Salam (means: sorry we are not allowed to Gossip) ( and depart)}
 
سورة المؤمنون
23
1
قَدْ أَفْلَحَ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ
سورة المؤمنون
23
2
الَّذِينَ هُمْ فِي صَلَاتِهِمْ خَاشِعُونَ
سورة المؤمنون
23
3
وَالَّذِينَ هُمْ عَنِ اللَّغْوِ مُعْرِضُونَ
 1. Successful indeed are the believers.
2. Those who offer their Salât (prayers) with all solemnity and full submissiveness.
3. And those who turn away from Al-Laghw (dirty, false, evil vain talk, falsehood, and all that Allâh has forbidden).
سورة المؤمنون
23
10
أُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الْوَارِثُونَ
سورة المؤمنون
23
11
الَّذِينَ يَرِثُونَ الْفِرْدَوْسَ هُمْ فِيهَا خَالِدُونَ
10. These are indeed the inheritors.
11. Who shall inherit the Firdaus (Paradise). They shall dwell therein forever.
سورة الفرقان
25
43
أَرَأَيْتَ مَنِ اتَّخَذَ إِلَهَهُ هَوَاهُ أَفَأَنتَ تَكُونُ عَلَيْهِ وَكِيلًا
43. Have you (O Muhammad ) seen him who has taken as his ilâh (god) his own desire? Would you then be a Wakîl (a disposer of his affairs or a watcher) over him?
{IF A PERSON REFUSES TO ACCEPT SUNNAH THEN HE IS FOLLOWING HIS DESIRES AS HIS LORD/S SO O'MESSANGER pbuh WILL YOU PLEAD HIS CASE??? ( ON YAUM-UL-HISAB!!!)}
 
Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah
Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 92 :: Hadith 381
Narrated Hudhaifa:
Allah's Apostle said to us, "Honesty descended from the Heavens and settled in the roots of the hearts of men (faithful believers), and then the Quran was revealed and the people read the Quran, (and learnt it from it) and also learnt it from the Sunna." Both Quran and Sunna strengthened their (the faithful believers') honesty. (See Hadith No. 208)
 
To make the Heart Tender (Ar-Riqaq)
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 76 :: Hadith 436
Narrated Zahdam bin Mudarrib:
'Imran bin Husain said: The Prophet said, "The best people are my contemporaries (i.e., the present (my) generation) and then those who come after them (i.e., the next generation)." Imran added: I am not sure whether the Prophet repeated the statement twice after his first saying. The Prophet added, "And after them there will come people who will bear witness, though they will not be asked to give their witness; and they will be treacherous and nobody will trust them, and they will make vows, but will not fulfill them, and fatness will appear among them."
Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah
Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 92 :: Hadith 410
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:
I heard the Prophet saying, "Allah will not deprive you of knowledge after he has given it to you, but it will be taken away through the death of the religious learned men with their knowledge. Then there will remain ignorant people who, when consulted, will give verdicts according to their opinions whereby they will mislead others and go astray."
 
To make the Heart Tender (Ar-Riqaq)
Bukhari :: Book 8 :: Volume 76 :: Hadith 484
Narrated Abu Huraira:                                                                  Very Important
That he heard Allah's Apostle saying, "A slave of Allah may utter a word without thinking whether it is right or wrong, he may slip down in the Fire as far away a distance equal to that between the east."
Knowledge
Bukhari :: Book 1 :: Volume 3 :: Hadith 108
Narrated Anas:
The fact which stops me from narrating a great number of Hadiths to you is that the Prophet said: "Whoever tells a lie against me intentionally, then (surely) let him occupy his seat in Hell-fire."
 
The word "strange" appear 33 time(s) in 28 hadith(s) in Muslim translation.
(1) It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Islam initiated as something strange, and it would revert to its (old position) of being strange. so good tidings for the stranger.  (Book #001, Hadith #0270)
(2) It is narrated on the authority of Ibn 'Umar ('Abdullah b. 'Umar) that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed: Verily Islam started as something strange and it would again revert (to its old position) of being strange just as it started, and it would recede between the two mosques just as the serpent crawls back into its hole.  (Book #001, Hadith #0271)
 


--- On Fri, 5/11/12, Humayun Rasheed <humayunhere@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Humayun Rasheed <humayunhere@yahoo.com>
Subject: Non-Quraanists question.
To Syed Ali

Syed Ali,
you believe it is same Quran that revealed and it is word of Allah(s.w.t.) - BECAUSE - all Muslims believe like this.
Then why you deny the Sunnah - WHILE - all Muslims believe in it also?

Accepting one thing rejecting other? OR, if your reason of belief in Quran is different, then present it !! Why hesitating?

You will send purpose less emails but will never ever send proof that why you believe in Quran, and same reason not applied to Sunnah.


From: Syed Ali <sabahatca@hotmail.com>
To:
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 8:01 PM
Subject: Non-Quraanists question.

Mulla Jee,
"kawwon ke koson se bail nahi marty". All of your brothers and sisters knows that alQuraan is from ALLAH. Only you are in doubt. And inshaaALLAH you will remain in doubt till the day of judgment. Then ALLAH taala will not ask you about the authenticity of HIS Words. HE will just show you your cell.

So, why don't you just prove who you are ??????????? As soon as, you prove us your identity i.e. you are who you are or what you are, then you will not have anymore doubts in Quraan, to be or not to be.
 
IFFFFF there is anyone else here who does not believe that Quraan is word of ALLAH, then please support your leader Mulla Humayun, P.A. to Shaytaan.
 
Faded Kaukub,
You don't know if Bukhari was a narrator or not. So, how would you understand the invention of ahadeeth ???????????
 
Salaam,
Syed Ali,
Muslim


Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 17:26:07 +0300
Subject: Re: Non-Quraanists question.
From: rana.humayun.rasheed@gmail.com
To: butshikana@gmail.com


This 200 years is a lie. Sahih Bukhari was written after 200 years, it is mixed up by these liars that Hadith was written after 200 years.

Brothers and sisters, you know Syed Ali have no proof for his belief that why he believe it is same Quran that revealed and it is word of Allah(s.w.t.). He have no proof, let ask him !! The day he will have proof the same day he will not be able to deny Hadith also.

On 11 May 2012 02:46, Kaukab Siddique <butshikana@gmail.com> wrote:
Syed Ali "alone" wrote: "history says that the books of ahadeeth were invented after 252AH."
 
Where does history say that dumbo?
 
"Invented?" Mr. "Alone" is out of his mind!

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Syed Ali <sabahatca@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Non-Quraanists,
 
First of all, let me tell you that I am not a Quraanist. And none of my Muslim brothers and sisters either. We are Muslim and that is more than enough.
 
Now for your real questions, found deep down below, I am taking the liberty of quoting them here with my answers:
"WILL THE PEOPLE WHO FOLLOWED HATHEES IN ADDITION TO QURAN SCRUPULOUSLY FROM 610 A.D TO 1950 GO TO HEAVEN OR NOT "
 
My answer: From the beginning of time to its end, who goes to heaven depends on Faith and deeds according to the will of ALLAH.
 
My Question to you:
From your another statement, "Prophet started to preach in 610AD" and history says that the books of ahadeeth were invented after 252AH. So, by your token, what happens to the people who were born before the books of ahadeeth ????????????????
 
Salaam,
Syed Ali,
Muslim.

From: vkamal@etazenath.com
To: bawanyzaheer@yahoo.com

Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:22:40 +0400
Subject: RE: RE: Re:

Well-said Zaheer Bhai.

 
Since I sent the question……….. no one has replied I mean none of the AHLE QURANEES.
 
Come on guys AHLE QURANEES……………. Please answer my question ……………
 
 
With best regards
Kamal

 
From: Zaheer Bawany [mailto:bawanyzaheer@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 3:18 PM
To: Simple-Islam Yahoo Groups
Cc: Kamal; seemamanazir@gmail.com
Subject: Fw: RE: Re:

 
 
I will not interrupt any more but would like to ask a question:
When was sent Paul borne? was he not against Jesus? then sensing the direction of weather just overturned from his earlier position to say that he had seen Jesus, who advised him (st.Paul) to spread Christianity with full authority of Jesus.
Sent Paul was borne in third century after Disappearance of Jesus.

Hazarat Abu Huriara r.a. was a close companion of the Messenger pbuh means was present in the presence of Rasulullah pbuh and one of the Asha'b-bussfa' and devoted his life to record every moment, deed, and words of Messenger pbuh for guidance of the followers of the Prophet pbuh not only for generation of his time but for the generations upto the end of Muslims from the World.
Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah
Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 92 :: Hadith 384
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "All my followers will enter Paradise except those who refuse." They said, "O Allah's Apostle! Who will refuse?" He said, "Whoever obeys me will enter Paradise, and whoever disobeys me is the one who refuses (to enter it)."
   


--- On Thu, 5/10/12, Kamal <vkamal@etazenath.com> wrote:


Thanks for your swift reply Ms Seema
 
I request at least ONE AHLE  QURANI to give a sensible, rationale  and tangible reply to my question (marked in red color below)
 
With best regards
Kamal

 
From: Seema [mailto:seemamanazir@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 1:53 PM
To: Kamal

 

One thing I am certain of, that wicked people will not enter Heaven no matter how long their beards or how large their CLAIM of belief.
People will be judged on what they do,  Allah knows what is in our hearts and what each of us believe.
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Kamal <vkamal@etazenath.com> wrote:
To All those who talk about AHLE QURAN PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE QURAN ALONE AND NOT HATHEES
 
Please answer these questions.
 
Our Prophet (Sal) was born in 570 AD
 
Prophet Started Preaching Islaam from 610 A.D and people had started to follow Islaam since then
 
When AHLE QURAN ( GROUP WHICH DOES NOT BELIEVE/ ACCEPT HATHEES) was born………….
 
LET US ASSUME ( SINCE I DO NOT KNOW THE DATE OF BIRTH OF AHLE QURAN) THAT IT WAS INVENTED IN 1950
 
SO WHAT WILL BE THE FATE OF THE MUSLEEMS
 
FROM 610 A.D TO 1950 A.D (UNTIL THE INVENTION OF AHLE QURAN)
 
WILL THE PEOPLE WHO FOLLOWED HATHEES IN ADDITION TO QURAN SCRUPULOUSLY FROM 610 A.D TO 1950 GO TO HEAVEN OR NOT
 
 
 
 
With best regards
Kamal
Error! Filename not specified.
 
 
 
Sister Seema,
Walykumussalaam wa rehmutullah wa barakatahu.
 
St. Paul for Christianity is same as AbuHuraira for Hadeethist. Both of them came out of nowhere and became the most informed and the best narrators of the Prophets. They say, 90% of Christianity is based on St. Paul's ahadeeth. And we have found it the same for AbuHuraira.
 
Now, for the Vahi, it is not limited to the Prophets only except for the description of Islam. Azan is a part of deen today, therefore, it can be called a Vahi in the non-literal way i.e. limited for Deen only. Saying that, in the life of Muhammad elahy salaam two non-prophets received Vahi about such an important part of deen that is practised twice before each salaat!!!!!!
 
How could one can digest this kind of crap ?????? Almost everybody did.
 
Hundreds of rituals and believes added to Islam in this manner that spread like cancer in Islam. 
 
Only Quraan can cure. If we try.
 
Salaam,
Syed Ali,
Muslim.

 

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 11:12:40 +0400
Subject: Re: Additions to completed Islam.....
From: seemamanazir@gmail.com
"1. Azaan ----- wordings were revealed upon some Hazrat Abdullah bin Zaid bin ibneRabi in dream while partially awake from a man in two piece green cloth ((a typical wahi in short) while Prophet was still alive)).
Note: same dream (wahi) was revealed upon some Hazrat Umr too. But he got late in reporting while putting on clothes partially -- however he knew that Ibne Zaid had the same dream at the same time !!!!!!"
 

Syed Sahab, Assalam Alaikum,
Neither Hazrat Zaid, not Hazrat Omar could recieve Vahi, because they were not prophets. They were followers of the Prophet Mohammad-PBUH and could not have claimed this. I see a parallel in Christian Saint Pauls dream and the Hadeeth writers were probably inspired by St Paul and how he spread Christianity, based on his dream,  and made up these Hadeethes to conquer the world through their religion too in a similar fashion.
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:31 PM, Syed Ali <sabahatca@hotmail.com> wrote:
Sister Musarrat,
 
This is an excellent opportunity to have your attention over here, though you have not responded back to any of my comments before. But, still, I have not given up hopes on you, yet.
 
As you have said that "Islam was completed before the death of Muhammad elahy salaam and nothing can be changed outside its perimeters not even by the Sahaba..." (if you do not agree to this translated expression of your statements then please restate in English).
 
Now kindly, stick to only one part of it -- for definite conclusion only -- and define the status of following additions done to Islam by Sahaba, according to your religion of ahadeeth:
 
1. Azaan ----- wordings were revealed upon some Hazrat Abdullah bin Zaid bin ibneRabi in dream while partially awake from a man in two piece green cloth ((a typical wahi in short) while Prophet was still alive)).
Note: same dream (wahi) was revealed upon some Hazrat Umr too. But he got late in reporting while putting on clothes partially -- however he knew that Ibne Zaid had the same dream at the same time !!!!!!
 
Still, more statements were added to azaan after the death of prophet.........
 
2. Taraweeh.... from 8 to 20 (where salat-ul-taraweh is not proven from Quraan to begin with).
 
3. There are thousands of additions done to Islam by so-called sahaba, tabaeen, tabatabaeen, and their followers after the death of Muhammad elahy salaam and completion of Islam.
 
How are you going to authorize these bidaat in Islam ??????????
 
Please stick to your statement before going haywire. JazakALLAH.
 
Kullun biddatun zdalalat wa kullun zdalalatun fin naar ????????
 
Salaam,
Syed Ali,
Muslim.


 

Subject: Re: View of the Hanafi Jurists on Prostration to Other Than Allaah
From: javedaslam@mac.com
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2012 13:11:20 -0500

Sister Musarat,
 
I am puzzled.  You state that what I said was not correct, but you didn't offer any counterargument.  In fact, I would totally agree with what have said.
 
Javed Aslam
 
 
On Apr 16, 2012, at 12:31 PM, Musarat Jehan wrote:
 
بھائی جاوید صاحب۔۔ آٌپ نے جن امور کا ذکر فرمایا ہے اولولاامر کے بارے مین وہ درست نہین ہیں، بلکہ اصل مسئلہ یہ ہے کہ ایک گروہ اپنے امام کی تقلید شخصی کو جائز قرار دینے کے لئے اس اتھارٹی کا استعمال کرنا چاہتے ہین کہ انکے امام صاحب جس چیز کو حرام فرما دیں وہ حرام ہے اور جسکو وہ حلال قرار دیں وہ حلال ہو۔ جبکہ حقیقت یہ ہے کہ اللہ تعالیٰ نے اپنے بنی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کے علاوہ کسی کی بھی اطاعت کو غیر مشروط قرار نہیں دیا اور نہ ہی اسکی اجازت دی۔ چونکہ نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم معصوم ہیں اور انسے خطا کا سوال پیدا نہیں ہوتا اسلئے انکی اطاعت غیر مشروط ہے اور دوسری وجہ یہ ہے کہ نبی صلی اللہ علیہ سلم کے بارے مین اللہ تعالیٰ نے قرآن میں بہت واضح فرمادیا ہے کہ یہ نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم اپنی طرف سے کچھ نہیں کہتے بلکہ صرف جو وحی کی جاتی ہے اُن پر وہی کہتے ہیبں۔ نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کے علاوہ کسی میں بھی یہ خصوصیات نہیں اس لئے نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کے علاوہ کوئی اس قابل نہیں یہاں تک کہ نبی کریم صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کے صحابہ کرام کو بھی یہ اختیار نہیں دیا گیا کہ وہ جب دین مکمل ہو گیا تو اپسمیں کوئی اضافہ کریں یا کوئی کمی کریں ۔۔ دین نبی صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کی حیات مبارکہ میں ہی مکمل ہوا جسکے کچھ عرصہ بعد انکی وفات ہوئی اسطرح یہ دین مکمل ہو کر سیل ہوگیا۔ اب جو کچھ قیامت تک ہوگا اس سیل شدہ دین کے پیرامیٹرز کے اندر ہی رہ کر ہوگا اسکے باہر جو کچھہ ہے وہ گمراہی،ضلالت کے سوا کچھ نہیں۔۔۔۔ 

 

 
 

 

"Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to"
 
 




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